There are many methods that have been proposed. The simplest is to express them as ratios of some measure of size - which gets back to the original question as there are many ways to express size. The sum of all the measurements is a pretty unusual choice but it often may not matter much in practice because the measurements are usually very highly correlated. ----------------------- F. James Rohlf, Distinguished Professor & Graduate Program Director State University of New York, Stony Brook, NY 11794-5245 www: http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/ee/rohlf > -----Original Message----- > From: Classification, clustering, and phylogeny estimation > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of leo horseman > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:03 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: > > I do not have a citation for you; however, I am interested in > the question. > I must admit to being baffled. Why include size measurements > in your analysis at all, unless somehow the measurement of > shape is derived from the size measurement. If you've > measured only bone lengths, which surely would vary greatly > in size, then how did you arrive at a shape measurement? > > M.C. > > >From: Richard Wright <[log in to unmask]> > >Reply-To: "Classification, clustering, and phylogeny > estimation" > > <[log in to unmask]> > >To: [log in to unmask] > >Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:06:54 +1000 > > > >This is a question about size and shape in morphometric studies. > > > >I have a series of measurements of bone lengths in individuals that > >vary greatly in size. I want to consider similarities and > differences > >between the individuals solely in terms of shape. To remove > differences > >in absolute size I have taken each individual, summed all the > >measurements for that individual, and then divided each > measurement by that sum. > > > >This is an intuitively simple method. Some years ago I read a > >recommendation about using it. Now an editor is asking me to cite a > >reference to the use of the method. Unfortunately I cannot recollect > >where I saw it advocated. > > > >Can anybody help? > > > >I know that there are various alternative methods for > eliminating size > >in multivariate morphometric work, such as eliminating the first > >principal component if that is one of general size. However > my question > >is not about the competing merits of size/shape methodologies in > >general. This is a specific request for a citation of the > approach outlined above. > > >